Thursday, October 05, 2006

Take the Republican Challenge!

The Challenge:

I challenge all Republicans who are willing to respond with a sane and civil arguement to the following:

I'd like for someone, anyone, to come up with a list of Democrats holding a government office or are popular in the defense of, since Bush was elected in 2000, that have ties to corruption and ethics issues. I'll even give you a head start since I can actually admit when my party makes mistakes.

The Democratic Corruption list:

William Jefferson:
Allegations came last August that Jefferson had orchestrated a corruption scheme. Federal investigators are targeting the Democratic congressman, 58, for allegedly demanding cash and other favors for himself and relatives, in exchange for using his congressional clout to arrange African business deals. A former aide recently pleaded guilty to bribing Jefferson and is cooperating with authorities, and sources familiar with the case say a plea agreement with the lawmaker is being explored.

Jim Traficant:
(D-OH) financial corruption conviction and expulsion from House (2002)

Robert Torricelli:
(D-NJ) bribery scandal (2002)

Sandy Berger:
Sandy Berger, former Clinton administration National Security pleads guilty to unlawfully removing classified documents from the National Archives in October 2003.

The Republican Corruption list:

Mark Foley:
The Mark Foley scandal centers on e-mails and sexually explicit instant messages allegedly sent by Republican Congressman Mark Foley to teenage male Congressional pages. The questionable conversations, which took place between 2002 and 2005, are under investigation by the FBI and Florida officials for possible criminal violations. Foley has since resigned, and his lawyer issued a statement saying that "There was absolutely no inappropriate sexual contact with any minor... and any suggestion that Mark Foley is a pedophile is false." Foley also announced that he was himself molested as a teenager, that he is gay, and that he is an alcoholic.
The Republican congressional leadership has been criticized for not investigating Foley's emails, which were known to them three years before the story broke. It has also contributed to conflict within the Republican Party, as some prominent members blame the leadership, including calls for the resignation of the Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert.

Brian Doyle:
Department of Homeland Security Assistant Press Secretary Brian Doyle facing arrest on 23 charges related to soliciting sex from a 14 year-old minor in a police sting operation.

Trent Lott:
Republican Senator from Mississippi forced to relinquish his position as Senate Majority Leader after he stated that the United States would have been better off if segregationist candidate Strom Thurmond had won the presidency in 1948. Speaking at a 100th birthday party and retirement celebration for Republican Senator Thurmond, Lott said, "I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either." On July 17, 1948, delegates from 13 southern states gathered in Birmingham to nominate Thurmond and adopt a platform that said, "We stand for the segregation of the races and the racial integrity of each race."

Tom Delay:
Participated in a conspiracy to funnel corporate donations to state political candidates through the Republican National Committee. Forced in shame to step down as House Republican leader after he was indicted by a Texas grand jury on charges of conspiracy. He is the first House leader to be indicted while in office in more than a century. On 3/31/06, DeLay's former chief of staff, Tony Rudy, pleaded guilty to conspiracy and promised to help with a federal investigation of bribery and lobbying fraud relating to Abramoff. Rudy admitted conspiring with Abramoff — both while Rudy worked for the Texas congressman and after he left the lawmaker's staff to become a lobbyist himself. He is the second former DeLay staffer to plead guilty to federal charges in connection with the lobbying probe. Delay announced at the beginning of April 2006 that he will resign from Congress by June.

Corruption by DeLay's staff:
Ed Buckham, former chief of staff to Tom DeLay and later Chairman of the lobbying firm Alexander Strategy Group, appeared in Tony Rudy's guilty plea as "Lobbyist B." According to the plea, Buckham helped in routing $50,000 in payments to Rudy's wife's consulting firm - the money was to bribe Rudy for his help defeating a bill on behalf of Jack Abramoff's client.

John Colyandro was Executive Director of Tom DeLay's PAC Texans for a Republican Majority. He, along with Jim Ellis, was indicted for Money Laundering in 2004 alleging an illegal money swap with the Republican National State Elections Committee, an arm of the Republican National Committee. Colyandro also faces a charge for Unlawful Acceptance of a Contribution from a Corporation.

Jim Ellis was Executive Director of DeLay's PAC Americans for a Republican Majority. He, along with John Colyandro, was indicted for Money Laundering in 2004 alleging an illegal money swap with the Republican National State Elections Committee, an arm of the Republican National Committee.

Warren RoBold was a fundraiser for Tom DeLay's PACs (TRMPAC and ARMPAC) and was indicted in 2004 for taking illegal corporate money for TRMPAC - nine counts of Unlawful Acceptance of a Political Contribution from a Corporation. RoBold is charged with nine separate third-degree felonies, each of which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison.

John Negroponte:
Recently appointed by the Bush administration as Director of National Intelligence for the United States. Ambassador to Honduras from 1981-1985 during which time he supported and carried out an extreme US-sponsored policy of severe violations to human rights and international law. Supervised the creation of the El Aguacate air base, where the US trained the far-right murderous Nicaraguan Contras during the 1980's. The base was used as a secret detention and torture center, and in August 2001, excavations at the base discovered the first of the corpses of the 185 people, including two Americans, who are thought to have been killed and buried at this base. During his ambassadorship, human rights violations in Honduras became systematic. The infamous Battalion 316, trained by the CIA and Argentine military, kidnapped, tortured and killed hundreds of people. Negroponte knew about these human rights violations and yet continued to collaborate with them, while lying to Congress. Instead of spending the rest of his life in a federal prison to pay for his crimes, he is now US Director of National Intelligence.

John Boehner:
Newly-elected Republican House leader. Elevated to this position to replace disgraced former leader Tom Delay. Boehner himself is a prime example of congressional corruption. His political action committee collected nearly $300,000 from private student lending companies and for-profit academic institutions from 2003-2004. He has taken more than $157,000 in free trips, placing him in 7th place for such questionable activity. More than 20 of his staff members have taken jobs in the private sector as lobbyists or corporate public affairs specialists. He handed out checks to his colleagues from tobacco company political action committees on the floor of Congress in 1995. He will undoubtedly use this key position to undercut ethics and lobbying reforms in the House of Representatives.
In September 2006, shortly after the five-year anniversary of the World Trade Center destruction, he stated to the disbelief of everyone that Democrats "are more interested in protecting the terrorists than protecting the American people." Just another corrupt Republican extremist who shortly will be out on the street without a job.

Rick "man on dog" Santorum:
Junior senator from Pennsylvania. An anti-gay bigot who dishonors family values by spreading false and inflammatory rhetoric against gays and lesbians. He encountered controversy over disclosures that Pennsylvania taxpayers paid for his children's schooling while they lived in Virginia. Santorum maintained he did nothing wrong, and has pulled his children out of the school, according to reports.

Randy "Duke" Cunningham:
I'll let his own words speak for themselves:
"The truth is I broke the law, concealed my conduct and disgraced my office," he told reporters, his voice strained with emotion. "I know I will forfeit my reputation, my worldly possessions -- most importantly the trust of my friends and family."
Asked by U.S. District Judge Larry Burns if he had accepted cash and gifts and then tried to influence the Defense Department on behalf of the donors, Cunningham said, "Yes, your honor."

Conrad Burns:
Questions arose over $3 million in appropriations he earmarked for an Indian tribe in Michigan that was a client of lobbyist Abramoff. The senator received substantial campaign contributions from Abramoff and various clients.

Roy Blunt:
For trying to insert provisions into bills that would have benefited, in one case, a client of his lobbyist son and in another case, the employer of his lobbyist girlfriend, now his wife.

Dick Cheney:
Dick Cheney is surrounded by some very substantial conflicts of interest. As Secretary of Defense under George H. Bush, Dick Cheney spear headed an effort to privatize a number of parts of the military. In 1992, Cheney worked with Halliburton to draw up the plans and contracts. After leaving government, Cheney joined Halliburton and profited from the very arrangements he helped to engineer. Cheney still owns over 400,000 Halliburton stock options and a series of no bid contracts for work in Iraq and hurricane Katrina flow to Halliburton. A conflict of interest is blatant and undeniable.

Bob Ney:
Rep. Ney's ethics violations arise from campaign contributions and travel he has accepted from those who sought his legislative assistance, as well as from the misuse of his office to influence a private, commercial transaction.

Bill Frist:
Bill Frist of Tennessee made a fortune through the family business, Hospital Corporation of America. HCA has profited mightily, even beyond what is allowed by law. HCA was fined $840 million in criminal fines, civil penalties and damages for unlawful billing practices. These infractions came in the form of over-billing Medicare, Medicaid and the Defense Department's health care system. Frist's latest ethical problems arise from violating the spirit of the blind trust and insider trading, for which he is being investigated by the SEC. He also went to a pound while he was in med school and adopted cats to take home and dissect to further his medical knowledge. Horrible!

Bob Taft:
In August of 2005 Republican Gov. Bob Taft pleaded no contest to four criminal ethics charges for his failure to disclose golf outings paid for by lobbyists, as well as undisclosed gifts worth $5,800, he was fined $4,000 plus court costs.

Scooter Libby:
Scooter Libby has been instrumental in a number of plots which most people of ethics would avoid. Scooter was a key player in the awarding of no-bid contracts to Halliburton for work in Iraq. The VP's office vehemently denied having involvement in the contracts but it turns our Libby had been meeting with the Pentagon about Halliburton and the contracts. Libby is up to his eyeballs in the leaking of classified information, the identity of Valerie Plame. Judith Miller will testify that Scooter Libby compromised the classified information over coffee.

John Ashcroft:
Former US Attorney General who helped draft the presidential order creating secret military tribunals which bypasses the US court system and contains significant due process violations and allows for the imposition of the death penalty. Appointed individuals who have poor civil rights/liberties records to high-level DOJ positions. Eliminated a pilot program that provided federal money to pay for DNA testing to exonerate innocent inmates. Has blurred the line between church and state by conducting daily sessions of prayer and Bible study at the DOJ. Rounded up and imprisoned over 1200 men of Middle Eastern descent based largely on pretextual immigration violations and refused to disclose their identity and location and the reason for their detention.

Jack Abramoff:
Jack Abramoff has been ordered to report to prison by June 29th, 2006. There are two separate prosecutions against Jack Abramoff.

The first is focused on Abramoff's defrauding of investors in his purchase, along with Adam Kidan, of SunCruz, a fleet of casino boats. That investigation is being handled by the U.S. Attorney's Office in Florida. Abramoff was indicted for his involvement in the SunCruz fraud case August 11th, 2005 and pled guilty January 4th, 2006 to two counts (Conspiracy to Defraud the United States and Wire Fraud). He, along with Kidan, was sentenced March 29th to five years, 10 months in prison. Abramoff's yet to be sentenced in the other case.

The other case relates to bribing public officials and defrauding his Indian clients - it's being led by Justice Department prosecutors and is proceeding in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. Jack Abramoff pled guilty January 3rd, 2006 to three counts (Conspiracy to Defraud the United States, Mail Fraud, and Tax Evasion). A status conference is scheduled for June 6th.

On November 21st, 2005, Michael Scanlon, Jack Abramoff's partner in the Indian fraud and bribery schemes, pled guilty to Conspiracy to Defraud the United States.

David Safavian:
The Bush Administration's chief contracting and procurement official at OMB, David Safavian was arrested on charges of making false statements to an ethics official, making false statements to the General Services Agency's Inspector General, and obstruction of a GSA-IG investigation.

George Ryan:
Republican George Ryan was the Governor of Illinois from 1999 until 2003. Ryan's term in office was marked by a scandal involving the illegal sale of government licenses, contracts and leases by state employees during his prior service as Secretary of State; in the wake of numerous convictions of former aides, he chose not to run for reelection in 2002. In December 2003 he was indicted on 18 federal racketeering, fraud and conspiracy charges. His trial got underway in September 2005.

Rush Limbaugh:
Rush has long elevated himself above all those "lowly liberals and democrats". He identifies himself as someone who lives by and fights for ethical behavior. Except Rush was abusing prescription drugs for a period of over 5 years. The amount of pills consumed by Rush necessarily requires him to have obtained them illegally through a practice known as "doctor shopping". His housekeeper has admitted to providing Rush with illegal OxyContin pills.

Ralph Reed:
Ralph Reed is the face of the Christian right. Ascribing to himself deep, religious virtue, Reed has a long history of questionable activities. Reed is quite close to Jack Abramoff who with Reed, engaged in unfortunate quid-pro-quo lobbying efforts, most notably extorting money from Indian Casinos for campaign contributions.

Kenneth Tomlinson:
Republican Chairman of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Kenneth Tomlinson, investigated for violating the Public Broadcasting Act, resigned after the results of the investigation were published.


Now there are a ton more than this but I'm just giving the highlights as this has become entirely too time consuming. I had no idea there was this much corruption in the Republican party until beginning this investigation. Want to know more? Click the below link.


themikeuno said...

It helps the cause to keep references to after 2000. However, to be fair, the Republicans have ethics and corruption problems because they are in power. When the dems were in power they had ethics and corruption problems. If the dems get control again, they will again have ethics and corruption problems.

Here is a quick list of post 2000 democratic party problem people.

Jim Traficant (D-OH) financial corruption conviction and expulsion from House (2002)

Robert Torricelli (D-NJ) bribery scandal (2002)

2005 - Sandy Berger, former Clinton administration National Security pleads guilty to unlawfully removing classified documents from the National Archives in October 2003.

Other members of Congress associated with the Abramoff problems include democrats, specifically Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV), James Clyburn (D-SC), and Bennie Thompson (D-MS).

I am sure had the dems been in power during this time, we could count on them just as we coud during the Clinton adminstration

Below is a short list of other democrats with ethics issues, headed up by the grand poobah himself.

1995 - Bill Clinton (D - President)cheated on wife with young white house intern - very similar situation to Foley - except Clinton got further along with the young person he targeted.

1990 - Barney Frank (D - MA) accused of allowing a homosexual prostitution ring to be run from his Capitol Hill apartment. Reprimanded.

1992 - Dan Rostenkowski (D - IL) indicted on charges of embezzling $50,000 from House Post Office. After losing reelection bid in 1994, pleaded guilty in 1996 to two counts of mail fraud, fined $100,000 and sentenced to 17 months in prison.

1995 -- Rep. Mel Reynolds (D - IL) cited for sexual misconduct. Reynolds resigned, was convicted and was sent to prison.

1989 - Keating 5 - Alan MacG. Cranston (D-Calif.); Dennis W. DeConcini (D-Ariz.); John H. Glenn Jr. (D-Ohio); John S. McCain III (R-Ariz.); and Donald W. Riegle Jr. (D-Mich). The ethics committee's special counsel concluded that of the five, Glenn and McCain were not substantially involved in the influence-peddling scheme. Indeed, it was believed at the time that the Democratic party, which at the time controlled the Senate, wanted McCain -- the only Republican in the group -- to remain a target of the investigation in order to avoid the impression that the scandal was only a Democratic problem.

1999 - Henry Cisneros resigns as Housing Secretary and, after lengthy probe that began in 1995, pleads guilty (1999) to lying to the FBI about money he paid former mistress Linda Medlar a.k.a. Linda Jones; later pardoned by President Clinton in 2001.

RedWing-SM- said...

Well I'd say you had a good list except some of them are intentionally misleading. For instance:

"1995 - Bill Clinton (D - President)cheated on wife with young white house intern - very similar situation to Foley - except Clinton got further along with the young person he targeted."

This is in NO WAY similar to the current Foley situation. There is a HUGE difference between age 16 and age 22 as Monica was.

It is entirely ethical to use the corruption since 2000 as a standard to make an educated decision when voting in 2006.

As for the Sandy Berger charge... I think it was ridiculous and totally overblown. While him accidentally taking it may have been wrong...the overblown intentions of the Reps to discredit him for it were laughable. Sure it was great for the 25% Neo Con population...but most just ignored it and it blew over like a hat on a scarecrow during a storm.

I'd love to see the evidence of Reid, Clyburn & Thompson in reference to Abramoff.

themikeuno said...

To say some of my comments are "intentionally misleading" is not exactly "sane and civil". They are actually factual.

There are clear parallels between Clinton and Foley so to say it is "no way similar" is to hide your head in the sand.

Clinton was a Washington policitican in a position of power over young page/interns and used his position to take advantage of a very young person in a sexual way. Taking his marriage out of it, that is not ethical. Taking his marriage into account it was also immoral.

I bet your wife would not disagree that Clinton's activities classify as cheating. If she does disagree, congratulations, you win a cigar (pun intended). In addition, swapping salicious emails with an underaged woman would probably not get you in as much trouble with your loved ones as Lewinski's stained dress got Bill into with his.

As for Sandy, it is hard to say whether it is overblown or not because Sandy deystroyed the documents he removed. If they were so innocent why bother in the first place. I don't consider myself a Neo-con, more of an informed independent, and Sandy's efforts to seek out and remove documents from the archives was very disturbing, more so to me then Foley's actions. This is not to say that Foley absolved, he did the right thing to step down and if the GOP knew more sooner than others should step down, just as Clinton should have stepped down after the Lewinksi affair.

The evidence against Reid, Clyburn, Thompson can be found quickly with a google search. Try "Abramoff Reid" or Abramoff Clyburn".

Finally, I never said that it is not ethicial to use current scandals to make an educated decision when voting in 2006. The Republicans certainly used current scandals from Clintons time in 2000.

The point is there are a lot more relavent and meaty issues to debate about then scandal. Such as stem cell research, how long to stay in Iraq or to stay at all, the looming econcomic bust resulting from overblown consumer debt, immigration, Iran, our policy towards China, our relationship with Russia.

Sure it is fun to throw scandal in the face of the Republicans because so many of their party spokespersons carry rightiousness like a flag for the party. However, to elect the dems because the Republicans have ethics issues is blind to the fact that the dems have had ethics problems, have ethics problems, and will continue to have ethics problems.

It is this thinking that put Bush where he is today.

Gray Fedora 738 said...

I subscribe to the Chicago philosophy of politics.

Whenever someone points out some alderman is a "crook," the Chicagoan says:
"Of course he's a crook, but he's OUR crook."

As themikeuno says, if the Dems were in power, there would be planty of scandals in the party. But at least they would be OUR crooks.

What bothers me most about the Bush administration is they have upped the ante, set a new level when it comes to dishonesty and dirty politics.

RedWing-SM- said...

themikeuno you're acting like this is my first post and that i've never talked about anything else. To dismiss my post as the ONLY thing I'm pointing out is wrong with the Republican party is ignorant and downright wrong. Try reading the other posts i've made where I bring things up like Education and Iraq...2 issues I'd hope you would stick with.

And by the way... the GOP DID know about Foley YEARS AGO. Just because they are now trying to cover up THAT FACT doesn't mean it isn't true.

I'm going to add 3 of your democrats to the list. However, I have about 30 more Republicans I can add. The sheer NUMBER of corrupt republicans from 2000 forward is mind boggling. Sure you can go back to 1989 for the democrats...but the NUMBER is still FAR LESS with Democrats than with Republicans.

No arguing that....and if you really think you can... bring it on! I have 20-30 more profiles I can put up on prominant republicans SINCE 2000. Now...I can also bring up about 60 republicans since 1989...but that's not the debate is it?

Anonymous said...

I disagree with the connection between Clinton and Foley. Sure, Clinton was in the wrong. He violated his marriage vows (he was *not* the first president to do so) by engaging in inappropriate behavior with Lewinski. However, Lewinski was an adult -- a Consenting Adult. There are reasons our country has statutory rape laws, laws against child pornography, soliciting a minor, etc. The maturity difference between a 14-yr. old and a 22-yr. old is immense, and someone comparing those two situations as apples to apples is blatantly misrepresenting the facts of each case.

Power does breed corruption; the comment made "had the dems been in power" is valid. However, the ridiculous comparisons nullified any legitimate points made. What Clinton did may have been unethical (and to marriage traditionalists, immoral), but what Foley was doing is ILLEGAL. Big difference.

themikeuno said...

Redwing this has been fun. Just a little curious, do you know what redwings are?

Anyway, I liked how you identified how you think I am "acting", graduated your assumptions to fact, and then attacked your assumptions as my position. Very smooth... and entertaining. Seems like a familiar democratic technique. Very good grasshopper.

As for corrupt dems, I went have back to the past, because that is when they were in power. That is my point, along with the fact that while you may deal with other issues, dealing with these is pandering to the lowest common denominator. Which is what the Republicans did in 2000 when they focused on the lax ethics of the Clinton administration.

I realize this irony may be lost on you and anonymous, but not on me, especially when you both so vehemently defend Clinton.

However, since this is your cup of tea, I will indulge you with more on this same topic.

I spent a little more time on your challenge, I am not obsessed with this type of thing, but I did find some others who are and have credited them below.

First, if Ralph Reed makes the list for his links to Abramoff, then you need to include Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV), James Clyburn (D-SC), and Bennie Thompson (D-MS) for having those same links, as I noted earlier.

This web blog would become even more unwieldy if it captured all of the unethical activities by democrats when measured by Redwings standard for John Ashcroft and Dick Cheney.

Using this standard you would have to pick up among others, Al Gore and his campaign contribution issues involving the Chinese.

Finally, if you are going to dip into the governor ranks to find republican issues, dip into the governor ranks of the dems. Here is a gem for you. Former Governor McGreevy of NJ.

The future governor met Golan Cipel, an Israeli national in 2000, a year before he is elected to his present office, and brings him to the United States. That year the New Jersey Democratic State Committee pays his $1,100 INS registration fees and then gives him a job.

In February 2002, McGreevey tapped Cipel to be the state's terrorism czar. Cipel stepped down from the job a month later after lawmakers questioned his qualifications for the $110,000-a-year post, and the lack of a background check." USA Today August 13, 2004

"But the federal government refused to give Cipel a security clearance to review sensitive material because he was not a U.S. citizen. Cipel resigned in March of that year, but McGreevey retained him at the same salary as a "policy counselor." Administration officials never explained exactly what he did." Philadelphia Inquirer August 13, 2004

Ouch. So the people of New Jersey were going to be protected by the lover of the married governor without proper qualifications?

Get more on morally bankrupt democrats at

This is another gem of a website -

This website dishes the ethical dirt on several prominent current democrats. Below is a sampler of which democrats have done what.

Who - What
Boxer, Barbara - Abramoff Connected

Corzine, Jon - Cronyism

Dean, Howard - Family Hiring

Durbin, Dick - Illegal Activities

Emanuel, Rahm - Late Filers

Kerry, John - Lobbyist Gifts/Cash

McDermott, Jim - PAC Money

Pelosi, Nancy - Paid Trips

Anonymous said...

Enjoyed reading the debates more than anything. In fairness I would have to agree than there is more elaboration etc. on the Rep. scandals then is offered on the Dems. Some of the laundry list against the Republicans seems to cross the line into poor behaviour and speculation and less on facts. I agree with themikeuno in that More than anything this administration and the Republican party has hijacked morales, ethics, values, and patriotism. They have sold a bill of goods to the religous right and the rest of America that their party is the moral high ground. In that framing it doesn't really matter what the scorecard is in the scandal and corruption category.

Clinton made a huge mistake with the Monica Lewinsky affair. I refuse to defend his actions even though I think he is one of the best presidents in recent history (seriously) He is not however a hypocrite or pedophile. The Republicans want to go beyond banning gay marriage and also deny rights to gay couples in civil unions. They have compared homosexuality to beastiality. They all knew that Foley was homosexual, and evidently many knew he was soliciting these young men. And yet they supported him, blindly looked away from his actions all while denouncing Gays from the other corner of their mouth. People are getting played like a piano. No one owns morales, No party owns values, and there is absolutely nothing in my book worse than a hypocrite. Good work on the blog, keep showing the hypocrisy of these individuals. Maybe people will start to get it.

RedWing-SM- said...

My goodness... (to quote Rumsfeld after listening to Hillary's rant on his lack of accountability)

I seriously cannot believe you would even THINK to bring up cronyism with the way the current administration has handled that aspect. I left that part out because you can give quite the fair shake to BOTH parties for that one.

I decided to look up Harry Reid and Abramoff (something you should have done before using it) to see how such a great man could be involved with Abramoff. Guess what folks? He wasn't! Take a look at the VERY conservative newsmax story on the subject:

Here's a quote for those that don't look up things like that:

"Questioned about the donations last month by "Fox News Sunday's" Chris Wallace, Reid immediately turned testy.

"Don't try to say I received money from Abramoff. I've never met the man, don't know anything," he insisted.

When Wallace protested: "But you've received money from [one of his Indian tribe clients]," the top Democrat shot back: "Make sure that all your viewers understand - not a penny from Abramoff. I've been on the Indian Affairs Committee my whole time in the Senate."

When the Fox host pressed again on the Abramoff-linked donations, a flustered-sounding Reid continued to stonewall, saying: "I'll repeat, Abramoff gave me no money. His firm gave me no money. He may have worked [at] a firm where people have given me money. But I have – I feel totally at ease that I haven't done anything that is even close to being wrong." -end quote

Once again...your lack of bring forth the facts has nullified your entire argument. I won't bother looking up the other 2...instead I will let you handle that if you dare.

Cronyism list is still valid. Did I mention that if you're up for the Cronyism argument I'm willing to tackle it? :)

themikeuno said...

I am trying to picture you saying "my goodness" and I can.

I think it is good that you focused your reply on Reid, safer ground. Go for the cronyism bit to, it will be fun.

Let's go to the Reid matter. You more or less have hit the the point. Just because he received money connected to Abramoff doesn't mean your guilty of unethical matters.

Clearly, Reid received Abramoff connected money.

In his own words from your post, "He may have worked [at] a firm where people have given me money."

Now that is just playing with words. He knows he didn't do anything wrong, but he can't afford to make this also a democratic scandal and he doesn't (and didn't) want to give back the money.

Sen. Harry Reid began receiving campaign contributions from at least four American Indian tribes only after they hired Jack Abramoff. Excuse me, uh, Harry, those are the companies where Abramoff... um worked. That's what lobbyist do.

• $19,500 from the Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians of California.

• $5,000 from the Coushatta Tribe of Louisiana.

• $7,000 from the Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians.

• $19,000 from the Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe of Michigan.

Reid has yet to explain what makes his Abramoff-Indian money different from the Abramoff-Indian money that went to Republicans.

So Redwing, what makes Reid's receipts different. Why are the republicans who received Abramoff connected money unethical and deserved of a place on your list but Reid is not?

What about former Governor McGreevy, you can't tell me he doesn't deserve a bold and underlined place of honor on your list.

RedWing-SM- said...

Thankfully this won't be a long and drawn out response. I also want to let you know that i do respect your position and your style of argument. Most places I get into arguments with the Right I end up getting called names and the argument ends up ad hominem.

Now to the short rebuttal.

A. All of the abramoff people I listed have been indicted or have cases pending. Reid was not and therefore does not need to be on the list.

B. McGreevy's fault lies in his cronyism. I don't feel like adding people like Michael Brown to the list just to justify McGreevy. McGreevy was being extorted...and instead of paying up...he outted himself. Since my best friend is gay and didn't come out till he was 20...I know what it's like to be hidden in your sexual identity. For that reason...Whatever respect he lost for the cronyism...he made up by coming out instead of paying up.

RedWing-SM- said...

By the way...I do know what my name means :) ...and no my name has nothing to do with Detroit. :)

And I forgot to say that if they find Reid's contributions to be illegal then yes he should give the money back.

I'd also love to have you post the info on the other 2 dems you mentioned. I think I've done enough research for this blog post. Still working on my next one!

Great debating you though...seriously.

themikeuno said...

This was a good post and you have done a great job on the blog overall. I have perused your other posts and commented where I felt it was necessary. Before I leave what is probably my final comment on this post, let me comments on McGreevy.

Don't defend McGreevy because he is gay because that is just as misguided as attacking him for being the same reason. His orientation has nothing to do with the issue. The man put his sexual desires over the security of the country. It doesn't matter if he had put his girlfried or his boyfriend in that post and it really doesn't matter that he was married.

His cronyism rose to the level of criminal incompetence. His almost immediate resignation and the fact that he is gay is probably what saved him from any criminal prosecution.

The man put his middle eastern lover in charge of the New Jersey department of Homeland Security. Now that sounds very bad and maybe you could give him some slack if his lover had any and I mean any qualifications to hold that post or any other government post. But he didn't.

I think you are right to move on to the next post. I feel that I am done with this one as well. While we could probably post daily about this topic, the points have been made on both sides and there are other topics to hit. I suggest North Korea and how Clinton got us into this mess.

RedWing-SM- said...

I never defended McGreevy for being gay. Not sure how you got that out of it. I merely defended him for not stooping to the level of taking money to keep himself in the closet. As for his love and his post...I think Michael Brown destroys him in that respect. Brown's post was FEDERAL. I'm not justifying what he did...but Bush's cronyism has been horrific on a much higher level of government. Bush is simply a bad president. Period.

Clinton was NOT a bad president and did NOT cause the North Korea crisis we're in. I can't even believe Fox News is all over it. Of course, they also labeled Foley as a democrat and showed poll numbers that were reversed in the Republican's I expect it from them.

Save your comment for the post. It will be on Bush and how HE got us into this mess...not Clinton.

Gray Fedora 738 said...

Bear in mind, as you peruse the following roll call, that these guys are getting busted for this stuff while their party has absolute control over the House, the Senate, the White House and the Justice Department. Huffington
As William Rivers Pitt wrote today:

Post columnist Stephen Elliot pegged it recently when he wrote, "The fact is if you control the Senate, the White House, and the courts, and you're still getting busted for bribery, stalking children, and money laundering, then something is really sick at the Republican core."

Gray Fedora 738 said...

Bear in mind, as you peruse the following roll call, that these guys are getting busted for this stuff while their party has absolute control over the House, the Senate, the White House and the Justice Department. Huffington
As William Rivers Pitt wrote today:

Post columnist Stephen Elliot pegged it recently when he wrote, "The fact is if you control the Senate, the White House, and the courts, and you're still getting busted for bribery, stalking children, and money laundering, then something is really sick at the Republican core."